Ababkova, Liudmilla Illinichna

Velikie Luki, Pskov Region
5 January 2007

Let me tell you about my parents: my father was a military man, he was a Major and served throughout the Fatherland War, survived it. My mother was a kolkhoz worker. After the war, my father returned and they got married, then they left for Nizhny tagil. My father stayed in the army, served as a soldier, and we moved between various military bases. Each year I went to a new school, in a different town. My mother didn't work. I went to school in Germany, in Ukraine, in Sebezh.

Of course I particularly remember first starting school. I remember very clearly the time in Germany. School, technical college, I remember all of that. Then children.

How did people treat you in Germany?

Very well. The children were very friendly. They sent us all over the place, children from the military bases. But we were already quite old by then... And they didn't really like us, even then.

Never mind, we lived comfortably. Then we came back to Russia, came to Velikie Luki and lived there. What else do you want to ask me?

Tell us about the government... education, ideology.

Of course, particularly when Gagarin flew into space, that day I shall remember all my life. They gathered the whole school together, it was a very happy day. That was really something – something unforgettable. We were very proud that the first person in space was ours, was Russian.

We're particularly interested in the 1930s and 1940s – did your parents tell you anything about that time?

My grandfather fought in the Finnish war and the Fatherland war, but he didn't really tell us about it, didn't manage to tell us. My grandmother and mother were behind the enemy front, were surrounded but they were... loyal. Of course there was famine, but we survived. We had our allotments.

Did you know anything about collectivisation, de-kulakisation?

No-one among us was de-kulakised because I came from a simple family. We were all from one village – mother, father and my grandparents, so no-one suffered from that.

And what happened with religion at that time?

Religion was forbidden, we grew up and didn't believe in God. You could believe in your soul, but it was forbidden. In fact my grandmother was baptised and I was secretly baptised. My father was a communist, he forbade it, but my grandmother secretly had me baptised... My grandmother was very religious, she had icons. She was a strong believer.

In the village we always celebrated Easter and Christmas. Of course all the older generation were believers.

Could people change their place of residence or work?

No, from the village no-one could. To leave you had to get a passport. But my mother managed to leave because when my father returned from the war, she left with him, as his wife. Of course it was very difficult to leave. All our relations stayed in the village... My grandfather was a foreman in the kolkhoz all his life. Of course, that was all earlier. In the Soviet times, in every village there was something – in every village. In one a pig farm, in another cattle breeding, in another some sort of industry. It's only now that they've destroyed everything, sold off everything, it's all empty. Old people are dying off – you're still young. At that time of course it was a very lively life: holidays, of course, including religious ones we used to celebrate. The whole village would get together for Easter, Trinity – there were lots of people. But now of course it's not like that.

And were you not punished for celebrating Easter?

No, it was all quite peaceful really. In our village it was peaceful. Maybe in the large towns they were punished in some way.

And were there any punishments for being late for work?

Absolutely, yes! You couldn't be late. You got told off, and for being late there was always a punishment.

Did women do different work from men?

Women worked hard, of course. It's hard work nowadays, of course, but it was then. But there were lots of different firms and factories, so it was not so hard for women.

Did you know anything about the repression?

In our family, no-one suffered from the repression. My husband's grandfather was de-kulakised and my husband had relatives, but we had nothing, so I didn't hear anything, don't know anything.

Do you think that the repression had to happen?

I think there was no reason for it to happen. People lived, put down roots, and suddenly disappeared. Of course it didn't have to happen. It shouldn't have happened.

Who do you think was responsible for it happening?

Well that's hard for me to say.

Do you think it could have been avoided?

Of course, the people at the top... it could have been avoided. How could everyone have been guilty – mothers, wives – it shouldn't have been done.

What do you think when you compare today with those years?

You know, I compare the different periods: the years of Brezhnev were said to be a period of stagnation. But we lived through those years, and I want to say that it wasn't a period of stagnation. We were protected in some way. We were in some way sure about our future. We were secure. We always celebrated different holidays and meetings. It was all very friendly. And that time we all remember with great nostalgia, the time of Brezhnev.

But you didn't have freedom of speech?

We didn't really notice that – we didn't notice there was no freedom of speech. Of course, there were few products in the shops. But they lived well at that time in Leningrad and Moscow. They lived very well. And now it's more difficult. When they gave us an advance, we could travel to Leningrad, buy some food and live well on it. I remember when Stalin died, I remember how everyone cried. Of course I was only very young, I couldn't understand whether it was right or wrong. But people cried – everyone cried a lot...

What do you think about Stalin and Khrushev now?

About Stalin, I don't know. I just remember how people cried. I was young, but with Khrushev, I remember how – one of my first memories, I was still at school – people really suffered when he raised the price of butter, people really suffered.

And today... what's better, and what is worse?

It's worse. There's no work, nowhere to find work. It's terrible that people even have a good education, and there's nowhere for them to work. That's very bad. And we have a tiny pension, but never mind – we'll survive, what else can we do.

What do you think about young people today?

Very well... I like young people today, I think they are cleverer than we were. Of course, we read lots of books then, but now you have computers, now you have more possibilities. But young people in our day were good too.

You had the komsomol then

In our day it was all more organised, yes. We had more responsibility, we felt that very strongly. Now you need to pay for an education, that's very hard of course. Not all parents can afford that. In that sense, of course things are worse.

Tell us about the Komsomol... you used to be told to be a Pioneer – what if someone didn't want to be?

Well yes, they did try to push us into that, and it was very rare that someone refused – very rare. But they joined in any case. There were only a few single cases when someone refused.

What did you do in your spare time?

I loved to read, I read like a drunkard... read and read and read. I'm sorry that my children aren't like that: they love the television, the tape recorder. But our generation really loved books. Sometimes we had parties at school, but that was only very rarely. Mostly we read.

And your parents?

My parents... my father worked very hard, he was a military man. So he would go away and then come home only late at night. My mother was a housewife, I had no sisters or brothers, I'm an only child. My mother taught me how to knit, but I didn't really enjoy that. I can do needlework.

What do you particularly remember from your school days?

From my school days I remember when Gagarin flew into space. But particular events – well I visited various different places, went to new schools, and when you start a new school, you need to get used to it. All the children were unfamiliar – it was very difficult: I studied German, then I arrive at a new school, I learn French, and they teach English. You arrive and need to adapt yourself – that was very difficult for me of course. There we are.

Thank you very much

Thank you girls – I probably haven't helped you at all.

No, of course you have. What did you think about the church?

Everyone loved it, and I would have done – but I don't know. Because every time there was some holiday, they brought the prices down. Everyone waited for the holidays, everyone knew that the prices would be lowered, everyone was waiting, excited. Now, though, we wait for each New Year, and we wait for them to raise the prices. How are we to live? Of course, in that sense it was much better before. We worry that those times have gone. Then we weren't worried that there would be a war, we were calm, we were sure that everything was alright here, everything was quiet and peaceful.

What about the deficits?

Of course there were deficits, mostly in the rural regions. People from the whole country travelled to the large cities, to Leningrad. Of course they stood in queues, bought up enough for a whole month. Everyone did that. If you had to buy clothes – you go to Belarus, to Latvia. No-one went about without clothes! Now it's very difficult.

What about the Soviet films, how they showed the ideology... everything was wonderful. Do you agree with that?

Well today... of course, earlier we used to watch those films with such pleasure, we loved them, we used to think so. And now when you watch those films, you watch them with completely different eyes, because of course we didn't know everything then, they hid everything. Because everyone used to say 'It's all wonderful, we're moving forwards, only forwards.' Now when you look back on it, you wonder whether it was really like that. And the films of course seem naive now.

What did you feel when you learnt that it wasn't true?

Regret. Of course, regret.

And did your teachers talk about ideology with you?

No, I was lucky, we had good teachers. They didn't just tell us what was in the curriculum, they told us what was happening in the world. they tried to enlighten us a bit. Of course they never said anything against the ideology.

Do you think that the Soviet education was the best there is – did you believe that?

Yes, because you go out onto the street and everyone is reading newspapers, books. Really people read a huge amount: everyone, really everyone loved books. The television was very rare, if someone had a television. Yes, we used to go to the library, we couldn't live without books. Today it's not like that, there aren't so many people who read a lot, hardly any, but we used to read. The thing I think is a pity – I'm sorry that it will be so difficult for you to enter higher education.

Was your family affected by collectivisation? Were you taken into the kolkhoz?

Well when I was old enough, when I started to understand, first of all we already lived in Germany, so it didn't really affect us. But then when they took us to see my grandfather for the summer, they were already kolkhoz workers. I remember that, unfortunately.

Did he choose to go into the kolkhoz?

Yes, yes, yes. But he went through the Finnish war and the Fatherland war, he fought a lot and had lots of wounds. He believed in the ideology, he wasn't a communist, but he believed in the ideology.

And what were your dreams, your ideals, what about your parents'?

My dreams and wishes, unfortunately never came true. My mother fell ill and died very young, and my father sent me off to Kazakhstan to my mother's sister to study at the technical college, and I wanted to go to the Institute. But it happened that I had to leave. My aunt also abandoned me, went away, I was left alone. If my mother had lived, of course it would all have been different. There you go.

Thank you very much